Willem: So why should we fight Sonia Kruger? She has spoken things that many are thinking. She has said that we need to discuss the connection between Islam and terrorism. That is a very valid and necessary thing to do. So why are we trying to fight her? Do we want to censor discussion?
I say to Sonia Kruger, good on you for having the courage and the wisdom to raise this discussion. And I say to those trying to shut her down, please let us as a society discuss what is important to us without trying to shut us down and censor us.
Erin: There are intelligent minds - sociology and political experts currently 'discussing the connections'. TV bimbos and rednecks discussing it, on the other hand, leads to marginalisation and hate-mongering. Kruger's uneducated suggestion that we need to BAN ALL MUSLIMS from entering the country, on the basis of her unfounded 'fear' is NOT valid or something we need to allow.
Willem: So Erin, you are the one to sit in judgment about who the 'intelligent minds' are who are going to be allowed to discuss this matter. ...bimbos and rednecks...' opinions don't matter? Their comments and beliefs are '...NOT valid or something we need to allow'
Strewth! Not just wanting to censor discussion, but actually judging other people's opinions as not valid, and not allowed to enter the discussion. Only the '..intelligent minds..' are allowed to discuss! Elitism at it's worst! No wonder the people are rebelling and wanting to speak their minds!
Since the above we have had another couple of posts. I thought it useful to post them here.
Leah: Willem, it is a debate we should be having, but we should be basing it on facts, not just feelings (which can be irrational), which is what the article we are commenting on is saying. People should not be ignoring/fighting/censoring/dismissing people on their looks etc, but allowing facts to be acknowledged. The concerns that Sonia Kruger was sharing are discussed in this article, where facts were presented to allay her concerns. However, as the article points out, encouraging people to view Muslims with fear and hatred, banning Muslims from our country where we have freedom of religion, will cause the Muslims here to feel socially ostracised and systemically discriminated against, as in France, and therefore causing the very problems that Sonia Kruger and others are so afraid of - Muslims who are made a welcome part of the community and do not suffer from discrimination will have no reason to be radicalised.
Willem: Good. Thanks, Leah, for recognising that we need a debate, and the debate should be based on facts.
I think many people are confusing two issues.
There is the issue of Islam, which is a totally supremacist religio/ political system which brooks no competitor and will not rest until it is supreme. That is where the problem lies and that is what clearly needs the debate.
Then there is the issue of individual Muslims. Most Muslims are peaceable people just like you and me, and I, like many others, welcome them into my home. The problem is that they are living out of step with the Quran and the Hadith, which commands them not to rest until Islam is supreme.
This means that there will always be some who start to take their religion seriously and heed the call to jihad. These are the ones who are 'radicalised', though perhaps as far as the Quran is concerned 'normalised' would be a more accurate term. They then influence others around them to also take up jihad. As we have seen here in Australia, it can often be the second generation of migrants that takes the Quran seriously. For instance the case of Numan Haider.
You say that '...Muslims who are made a welcome part of the community and do not suffer from discrimination will have no reason to be radicalised.' This ignores what the Quran itself says about the obligation to jihad. What we call 'radicalisation' is in fact inherent to Islam as laid out in the Quran and the Hadith.
This is a huge problem for free and open societies like ours who want to welcome people. How do we deal with welcoming people, some of whom will do everything to destroy the culture that makes them welcome? Who both want to destroy our society and incite others to do the same?
So I reckon at this stage we need to debate Islam and what it means and what its aims are, without the bullying of the PC brigade telling us that we are engaging in 'hate speech' . At the same time welcoming and caring about ordinary Muslims just as we welcome and care for others.